"What's wrong with golf? Gee, I can't imagine."

Gary Van Sickle posts a golf green fee horror story that does not bode well for municipal golf in Miami, or the game in general. Save some time to read the great reader comments. Plenty on the good, bad and greedy of public golf. 

Comments

[greenfee]

This article has just shattered an illusion for me. For many moons I have been telling people how much better US golf courses/clubs are at marketing their facilities than UK courses are.
The comments also highlight how widespread the problem seems to be.
It's a shame that the author hadn't dug a bit deeper and done some investigative journalism and found out just who is responsible for such an outrageous pricing policy.
As a comparison you can get some very good deals on excellent golf courses in my area of the UK for less than £30/$42 and typically £20/$28 will get you a very pleasant round of golf.

[Smails]

since when doea a muni charge $78 for a round of golf? Bethpage Red is $36, $41 on wekends. The Black is $50.

incompetent management is the problem here.

Geoff, how 'bout a muni success story? there are many. i think muni golf could be important to the game in this economy, and i think you do too. i'd love to read about some places that are doing it right.

[Ky Laffoon's Ghost]

In Lexington, KY you have a choice of 4 municipal courses. Some are better that others, but each one is a good value. The maximum cost to walk (anytime) is about $24, and that is on a Pete Dye course that has held at least two USGA championships. One other course holds US Open qualifiers and such. Of course, the local politicians fail to appreciate what they have, so there are no guarantees this will last. Lexington also has the Larry Gilbert Foundation, which runs a summer Inter-Club Program for several hundred boys and girls, ages 8-18. Some places do it right.

[thusgone]

i live in miami beach, and it is $85 for mb residents. it's a nice course, but really expensive. another problem with melreese is the attitude of the folks who work there. if you aren't a regular, expect to be treated as if you are invisible.

[thusgone]

$85 for mb residents at miami beach golf course.

[Mike T.]

An $158 green fee/tee time that goes unused brings $0 to the bottom line. Revenue mismanagement of that sort is unfair to both Miami Beach taxpayers and visiting golfers.

[Smails]

I grew up in the midwest--my town had 6 golf courses owned by the CIty, one that was 18 holes. abt a dozen other pub courses on top of this.

the players at the 18 holer regularly won the city championship over the pvt course players. everybody who was good played in the city champ. fianl round drew a gallery

cost is $24 today, which is up because they've recently renovated the course.

my favorite memory was seeing my 6th grade gym teacher show up at the course--he had a big thing for getting kids to try as many sports as he could, hoping something would stick with them for life--the guy had never swung a club, but he was looking forward to trying the game.

muni golf is one of the best things about our game. the crowded courses and 6 hr rounds prove that its popular, despite the hassle and poor course quality.

dont let one (or two-SF screws it up too) towns be the poster child for muni golf

[Steven T.]

Miami Beach also has 2 other munis- Miami Beach GC(non resident rate of $200) and Normandy Shores GC(non resident rate of $160) and not discounted anywhere that I could find.

Why bother at those rates in this economy?

On the other hand, the resident yearly membership of $1875 at Normandy Shores, a Flynn design recently renovated by A. Hills, is a bargain.

[thusgone]

both the mb courses are in tip-top condition. the membership is a little tricky, though. they don't have a pro-rated rate if you join after the start of the season, and it's hard to get someone to take your membership money as well. but this is in keeping with the approach to customer service everywhere in south florida, in my experience.

[Steve Wozeniak PGA]

Complete morons.........Nobody plays, let's raise the rates, that will make up for it!!! Anyone that understands simple economics would lower the CRAP out of the fees and bundle them up with lunch/cart etc and watch the starting times fill up......SAD

[Larry Moss]

The continued decline of the game has been a boon in many ways for me. Since I refuse to pay what some MBA has concluded is the correct price point, I have far more time for other things...things I should've done years ago, were it not for my golf gorging at reasonable prices.

I've had my fill, but I do feel sorry for those relatively new to the game, that maybe find themselves hooked on it.

[dsl]

Don't worry, it's coming soon - wait till the season 'officially' starts and we can watch these courses kill themselves fighting for our dollars. Be patient - it has to happen. One thing I worry about though - what happens to the 'value' courses ($25-40 fees) once the mid-range and higher end courses start dropping their fees?

[Tommy Naccarato]

Smails,
You ask for Geoff to show a positive? Well you haven't been reading. Go to these posts:

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2009/2/14/lpgas-la-options.html
and
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2009/1/2/golf-as-it-should-be-files-santa-anita-gc.html

Also an article for the Los Angeles Times:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/golf/la-sp-design9apr09,0,5375136.story

Where he was interviewed about public golf for local ragazine, Southland Golf:
http://www.southlandgolfmagazine.com/t-people_rich_with_character0306.aspx

Count me as one that think that anything over $30 for a green fee to be too much on any public course resident or non-resident.

[rb]

thank you Geoff once again for being one of the few who dare expose the ugly side of golf...and there is a lot of ugly out there...these public courses in Florida that charge outrageous fees has been a joke for years, except now they are feeling the pain...surprised you did not mention the biggest rip-off of all...$300 to play the Blue Course at Doral...rb

[Tighthead]

Miami?

Cue Horatio.

"Looks like this muni......" (fiddle with shades, puts hands on hips) "is all about the money".

Run Won't Get Fooled Again intro.

[jneu]

Incidentally, Smails, the prices you cited for Bethpage are for New York State residents; non-residents pay double on Black and Red, along the same principles as the "discounts" in Miami.

[MacDuff]

Miami Beach GC did have to recoup the $7 million it paid for the Arthur Hills re-do in 2004, i guess Normandy Shores was similar. MBGC is beautiful though, and the staff were very helpful (2005.) The Biltmore (a Donald Ross track) suffered from snooty staff when i visited. In fact throughout Florida i found the starters and rangers/marshals to be less than welcoming...in a service industry, for goodness sake. There are some great munis in FL with reasonable green fees: check out The Habitat and Sandridge, both north of Vero Beach.
Undoubtedly the grumpiest people i saw in the state were male golfers. i estimate only 2% of (male) players i encountered had smiles and cheery dispositions.
At Hilaman Park, Tallahassee, one very helpful pro-shop assistant said all golfers arrive with blissful expectation and the majority leave moaning.

[Steven T.]

I endorse Roy Case's Park Ridge GC in Lake Worth, FL as a muni ( built on a former landfill and operated by Palm Beach County) as an example of what muni golf should be,. The staff was personable, the facilities more than adequate and the prime season cost qA very reasonable- about $50 for non residents and about $10 less for residents. The course has elevation, rare for FL- and no houses. It's a 6-6-6 design and play moves along at a good pace.
Miami Beach GC, Normandy Shores GC and Melreese GC all have been recently renovated so the rates are now CCFD comparable. That doesn't mean that the rates can't be discounted for Monday to Thursday play or even twilight play or even a 9 hole hole late afternoon play. That's incompetent management.

[styled]

As a former resident of Miami and Coral Gables, I was shocked to read this story and the rates at Melreese and (in the comments about) Normandy and the course on Miami Beach. Thusgone, in my day (1987-96), the latter two were rough and ready, one and a half steps better than being not maintained at all, but great places for beginners (like me) and retirees. The Arthur Hills redos must explain part of the rates. Who's got the contract to run these places? Back then, the Miami Beach courses were run by American Golf and they certainly were bottom feeders. The pro shop at Normandy had one forlorn rounder with a few shirts on it; bunker rakes when you could find them had missing teeth. You couldn't get a decent hot dog and the range balls were dirty and chipped when they weren't smiling back at you. It was, more or less, a disgrace but also a reflection of what the market would bare.

I'm sure that American Golf got the license yanked for this very reason. The Arthur Hills' re-do at $7m...wow. How much of that is design fees, and how much is earth moving, new turf and sprinklers?

What are the options for a working stiff north of city? I heard Presidential, which was also rough and ready, was turned to nine holes. It'd be nice to go back and tee it up, but then at those prices I could probably find some really good daily fee options.

[Ted Cahill]

Rockford, IL- where I grew up- is a wonderful area for public golf. The city owns three 18 holers and a 9 holer. Plus the county runs three excellent 18 holers. I spent my youth on those courses and I think the highest green fee on a weekend is 32 bucks. I moved to Los Angeles- a city 100 times the population and less municipal courses. It was depressing. I've since moved to Oakland, Ca- where the area supports more public options and you can actually finish under five hours. I agree with an earlier post- the day of reckoning is coming for inferior, expensive, poorly run courses. I don't shed any tears when they close. Now I just need to find a new "friend" who can get me on Cypress Point- anyone?

[ArdmoreAri]

I payed $22 today (with cart) to play Cobbs Creek in Philly, PA. Some tee boxes as usual were barren hard pan and they are re-re-re-re-re-building the third green so that hole is a temp green 150 yds from the tee box but the greens rolled true and nice for mid March and the bunkers were pretty fresh.

I would never pay $160 to play anything! Bethpage is only like $100 for out of staters!

[thusgone]

styled: i played mbgc back in 1991-2000 when it was called bayshore and run (into the ground) by american golf. other than the layout, there is no comparison now. the place is immaculate. much nicer than just about any muni i've ever been on. i think the city of miami beach runs it now. the staff there are quite good: friendly and very helpful.

the price for 18 is high, but it's less than a mile from my house, and i love the layout. ray boone, the guy who gave me my first golf lessons, is stiil the teaching pro there. now he has "the ray boone golf academy," which is located in plush surroundings at the far end of the driving range.

most of the old characters from the bayshore days are gone, as is the old clubhouse where those guys were always playing pinochle. now matt damon and lawrence taylor are a couple of the bigtimers that hang out there.

crandon park, on key biscayne is still about the same as far as conditioning goes, but it's $135 for out of county residents and $75 (i think) for miami-dade residents. i think miami muni golf is priced to capture european and latin american money. that's the only way these fees make any sense at all.

[PVE]

Los Verdes Golf Course is $24 to walk (even if you are from NYC), $12.50 for seniors, and $5 for juniors (under 18).

Tee sheet is always full.

Do the math...

[Ponte Green]

I played Crandon Park last week (paid 168!). It was a nice course course with astonishingly fine greens. No way I would pay that kind of money again. This was a one-off and was actually a way to save money from the upcharge to play the Blue Monster which was closed for the CA.

I kinda thought they should cut down a bunch of the trees and mangroves that block the views of the Miami skyline.

[Jordan]

In Royal Oak, MI, we have two public courses, each with nine holes. Both courses are OK. Anyone, resident or not, can buy a seasonal "membership," which gets you a reduced rate every time you play. I think the membership pays for itself after about six rounds. Anyway, if you don't buy the membership, then you pay a little more, resident or not. Understatement: that method seems a lot fairer then what they do in Miami.

[vwgolfer]

As a regular at Bethpage, I sometimes forget how lucky I am.

[86general]

I've never lived in a city (and I've traveled quite a bit over a 14 year military career) where there wasn't very good, low cost municipal golf available. I admit my definition of good golf may not be the same as everyone else's, but I gotta think stories like this are exceptional. Don't know much about the Miami track, but I have no problem with Bethpage costing $80-100 for an out-of-stater.

Where I think prices are more out of whack are private clubs. I wish the US had more affordable private clubs; simple places that anyone can afford, such as what we hear about in the UK and Australia.