"It sounds different, but good. The ball takes off."

Steve DiMeglio on Spain's Alvaro Quiros' latest driving range show stopping moment:

Quiros, who averages 315.6 yards with his driver to lead the European Tour, was hitting 280-yard rockets into a net at the end of the range on Monday — with a 1954 MacGregor Tourney M85 persimmon driver. Contact sounded like a baseball bat hitting a golf ball. The size of the wood driver head was smaller than his metal 3-wood. Quiros said he was hitting the ball as far as he hits his metal 5-wood.

"I like it," Quiros smiled. "It sounds different, but good. The ball takes off."

Comments

[chico]

I love these snippets!Wonder what percentage of his shots went full distance or like me did he find the middle of a persimmon to be extremely elusive?

[question?]

Since it went as far as his 5 wood...is the distance difference between his 5 wood and driver (approx. 30 yds) the result of ball or clubs?

[Fo shiz]

Question for question?:

what?

[flotsam]

the difference between his driver and five wood is probably more like 50+ yards. his average driving distance includes holes where he likely hits less than driver.

[question?]

Fo shiz...Alvaro hits the persimmon driver and his metal 5 wood about the same distance. His metal driver goes about 30 yards farther. The Question? is...where does that 30 yards come from since the ball being used is the same with all 3 clubs. Got it?
.

[Scott]

Since he's using the same ball for all three shots (New Driver, Old Driver, 5 Wood), I'd say the difference comes from the club. Just a guess.

The Old Driver is probably 43", his new driver is probably 45".

They didn't say what shaft was in the Old Driver, but I'd say it's probably steel, not graphite.

What loft is the Old Driver? It might be closer to this 5 Wood loft (17*) than his New Driver loft (8.5*).

Alvaro Quiros's WITB: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=237984

[Mike T.]

Where did he find that antique implement, anyway?
Surely all the old persimmon-headed woods didn't biodegrade and those forged irons didn't get crushed like "cash-for-clunkers" lead sleds. What happened to all those classic clubs?

[Chuck]

I recall a story in which Lee Westwood was on the range at Augusta a few years ago, when he had the chance to hit one of the old timers' persimmon woods. (A 3w, I think, although it might have been someone's old driver.)

And that it was the first time in his life that Westwood had ever hit a wooden club.

[Smolmania]

Sort of off-topic, but is anyone else tired of golf announcers' discomfort over calling a 3 wood a 3 wood if it's made of metal. These "3 metal" intonations are absurd. It's a 3 wood or a 5 wood, notwithstanding the substance it is constructed from. After all, how many of us have "irons" that are actually made of iron?

Sorry for the rant. I feel much better now. . .

[Fo shiz]

Question?

Sorry I didn't understand your question. I figured the answer was obvious. If you hit a ball with one club and it goes one distance, and you hit the same ball with another club and it goes further, we're not talking rocket science when trying to figure out if it's the ball or the club that's responsible.

Did you think he was also hitting a 1954 ball?

As per the loft of the persimmon driver, it's most likely 10 or 11 degrees.

[chico]

Scott-nonsense!!!!
Of course it wasnt a 45"shaft-you wouldnt have kept a 45"persimmon on the planet-never mind the fairway!
Graphite shafts in 1954-who are you kidding?!
Tour persimmons were usually 9 or 10 degrees.
The changes are called modern technology and many of us think its gone too far(so to speak!)
Smols- 100% with you by the way

[86general]

Golf digest did some tests a few years ago, using modern clubs and balls (titanium and pro v1s) and 'vintage' equipment (persimmon/steel drivers and wound balata titelists). Their results showed that the best distances for each driver were achieved when using the ball of the same era.

For Quiros to be flying a MODERN ball 280 with a persimmon, steel shafted driver is astounding. If anything, the modern ball should be hampering his efforts with persimmon, not helping it. If this isn't evidence that technique and conditioning have evolved along with equipment, I don't know what is.

[longirons]

Smolmania.. I couldn't agree with you more.. the only thing worse is when Miller refers to a hole as a '5 par' instead of a 'par 5'

[86general]

Smolmania--I agree! I hate when they mis-use terminology, also. Maybe this is a bit school-marmish, but I can't stand when they say "he hit it THROUGH the green." "Through the green" has a precise definition in the rules; the correct term is "over the green." Same thing with "sand trap" and "bunker," although they usually get this one correct.

[jb]

Smols rules - again - and he is right - again

[Frank Lee]

Bring back "Cat" Williams and his telephone book nonsense.

[chico]

General-this time I cant agree with you.I've hit persimmon with balata and a Pro V1 and theres no question the Pro V goes quite a bit further.The balata 'stalled' at a certain point in the air-the Pro V doesnt.

[Ky Laffoon's Ghost]

Thank you, Smols. Right again and always. The other thing that drives me nuts is, "He made a good play there." No. He made a good shot. Or a bad shot, as the case may be. I think this started with Andy North. BTW, is anyone else irritated that North supplanted Judy Rankin as the walker with the last group on ABC?

[86general]

chico--interesting. I have no personal experience with it, I'm just relating what was stated in the Golf Digest article. I spent some time searching for it online but was unable to locate it. Maybe the differences between your experience and that of the players in the article had to do with technique...it's also possible (likely, even) that the drivers used in that article were 1st or 2nd generation titanium drivers, in the 350 cc range. Still, I stand by what I said, in that a 280+ yard carry with a steel-shafted persimmon driver is a mammoth hit. I am obviously not a member of the proV1-is-armageddon crowd, but even in my most conciliatory mood, I can't see that degree of power being attributable 100% to the characteristics of the ball. It has alot to do with the swinger, too.

[chico]

Genaral-I agree with you 280+with a persimmon is mighty long-but then he is mighty long!
I played the European tour in the late70s/early 80s and 250 was a big hit for me then with a balata/persimmon.

[chico]

Genaral-I agree with you 280+with a persimmon is mighty long-but then he is mighty long!
I played the European tour in the late70s/early 80s and 250 was a big hit for me then with a balata/persimmon.
I am now a somewhat portly 50 something and can hit my old Toney Penna and a Pro V1 260+ if I catch it.Hardly scientific proof of anything-but I do think todays ball is vastly superior.
One last thing-I had forgotton just how good a properly struck shot with wood felt-pure nostalgia!

[docrog]

Why is it that we are comparing today's stars with those who played the game with equipment of yesteryear? I often wonder just how many more or less Majors that Nicklaus would have won if everyone in his era had had today's equipment. I personally think that Tiger would win even more than he already does if everyone would return to persimmons and balatas. So what if you can't reach a 600 yard par 5 in two? Everyone is so concerned that you are not a real golfer if you can't launch a driver like Mark McGuire used to launch a baseball, that they are missing out on the lost art of curving the ball towards the target. Everyone who never does anything but hit maybe 1/2 a bucket of balls before they tee off, then can't get the ball in the air, just goes and buys another hybrid or whatever. The pros are totally complicit in this adventure because of filling their pockets of course. It is a rarity that anyone talks about maybe practicing a bit more, or just working on your game from inside of 100 yards and the pars will follow.
Another thing that gripes me (while I am obviously just venting) is the fact that now even teenagers can't seem to walk 9 holes. Everyone is in a cart because.................the pro makes money renting carts and pushes them. My 88 year old father used to call them 'fat-wagons' because given enough time, everyone who insists on using one ends up looking like a pear!
Louisville golf makes some of the best persimmon clubs that have ever been made and makes them in many shapes and sizes. Those who have dreamed about playing the old set, if they can't find them or the old clubs are about to fall apart might give them a look on their website. They are way easier to hit than some of these postings have mentioned and they will go EXACTLY where you swing them.
By the way, what material was the bat that McGuire used for all of hits made of? Other than filling an arm with steroids, the major league players use virtually the same equipment that Maris, Ruth, etc. did. So what if your best score with a 460 cc headed titanium driver is a bit better than with a smaller headed persimmon driver! Wouldn't it be great if in your weekend foursome the winner didn't brag about how far he/she smacked the drive on #7, but that "Fred" hit all of the fairways and 14 greens today hitting a slight fade, or "Sam" pulled off that hook around the trees nearly onto the green from nearly 200 yards out with his 5-wood.
Full disclosure: I have a 460cc Ping driver that I use when I have to, but 90plus % of the time, I am using either Hickory shafted persimmons (absolutely the most fun in golf), or the steel shafted persimmons. I have a 1.8 handicap index with the persimmons (I don't ever post the scores with the Pings because they tend to be higher due to trying to crush the ball), and yes, I do practice my chipping and putting a lot. I only drive the ball 240 ish with the wood woods and 250ish with the pings.