Golf World Survey Responders Clearly Like To Be Tortured

Uh, something's wrong with this list of readers favorite private courses but I'm not sure exactly what it is. Help anyone?

Oak Hill
Augusta
Pine Valley
Kinloch
Oakmont
Robert Trent Jones Golf Club
Inverness
The Ridge at Back Brook
Aronimink
Cypress Point
Firestone
Shinnecock Hills

I've always said that The Ridge at Back Brook or Robert Trent Jones Golf Club should be mentioned in the same breath as Cypress Point or Shinnecock Hills. And you know how I adore Firestone. But Oak Hill No. 1 on a list other than Best Private Courses Mangled By Jones' AND Fazio's? That's a stunner.

Ryan Herrington was charged with the task of explaining the inexplicable responses. You can also find links to the other lists including web-only state-by-state compilations.

Update on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 at 09:29 AM by Geoff

The Angry Golfer sounds quite pleased:

Never mind that we have a couple of Bubblegum Pistachios ranking high on our lists, or that Pebble Beach finished 28th among resort destinations behind a few places I didn't know existed. The primary purpose of a survey such as this is to start a discussion that leads to a full-blown argument, which may or may not lead to all four bigmouths taking second mortgages on their homes to finance a trip to the Monterey Peninsula, where they can decide for themselves if that journey to the holy ground was worth all the trouble.

Comments

[Kevin]

Some photoshopper needs to bring Kanye into this.

[court]

They didn't give private club members a list of club courses considered "great" - they asked private club members which courses were their favorites. It's sort of like Mike Piazza being voted in as the All Star catcher even though he was one of the worst catchers in the game - he just had a good bat and played in the biggest market in the country. If Back Brook and RTJ got enough votes, they made the list.

[www.mrpgolf.com]

There is nothing wrong with these types of lists. They are readers choice awards. The readers vote for what they've played and what they like. Most can't vote for Cypress Point as they haven't played it. Take these lists for what they are, not what some want to make them be. They are not a definative list of the best courses. Leave that up to the likes of Golfweek, not a readers choice list. Once again, most of these readers haven't played some of the elite courses and, therefore, can't rank them.

Does this make sense?

[OB]

Court - And your point? It's still a sucky list.

[court]

It's a sucky list by what standard ?

How many of even this "sucky list" have you played ? How many of the list of traditionally accpted "great private courses" have you played ? You don't know that you would like all of the traditional list courses - you don't know that you wouldn't agree on some of the "sucky list" courses.

This is a readers choice list, like MrPro said.

[OB]

It's a sucky list because it's quite obvious a few courses that no one gives a hoot about subscribe a lot of their members to Golf World and then crash the system with votes.

[court]

Ok - so the list isn't sucky...since presumably you haven't played many (or any) of the courses on the list.

Your problem is with the poll taker - not the pollee's. (and you clearly got the point about Mike Piazza) :-)

The question wasn't "What are the greatest private courses" - the question was "What is your FAVORITE private course ?" Two completely different questions.

[The O]

I have had the good fortune to play more than 2/3 of the private list, including RTJ. Its a worthy course.

I do want to give a shout out to Stevinson Ranch on the public list. Its in the middle of nowhere, 2+ hours from San Francisco and 2+ from Fresno, but I do love the course. That enough people have played it to make the list is nothing short of amazing.

[RM]

Apparently The Ridge at Back Brook really knows how to work an email campaign among the members.

[OB]

Actually I've played most of the courses, which is why I think it sucks. I wouldn't play half the top 10 ever again. I think you can guess which ones I mean.

For a list to be taken half seriously you'd like to think the process has some shred of integrity. It is very hard to see that here when some obvious shenanigans take place.

[Morg]

The question is, how did they find enough people who have actually played Augusta or Pine Valley or Cypress Point AND/OR RTJ or Blind Brook? Shenanigans. Malarkey. Tomfoolery. All afoot, I say, see.

Bubblegum pistachio? ... oh that Angry... .

[Morg]

The RIDGE at Back Brook, sorry Faz.

[www.mrpgolf.com]

Gentlemen...

Seriously, understand what this list is...

It is a poll that all readers of Golf World can log on to and rate the courses that they have played. Golf World then tallies up the numbers and then you've got the list. It is not meant to be a list of the best courses, rather it is a list of the readers of Golf World's FAVORITE courses. There is a huge difference between the two. HUGE!!! Court has mentioned this.

Furthermore, OB says that "For a list to be taken half seriously you'd like to think the process has some shred of integrity"...I agree. Check out "The Illogical Golf World" piece on my site...www.mrpgolf.com. This logical process is why I say check out Golfweek.

In my opinion, we need to take the passion that is obvious in this thread and channel is to bettering the game...not trashing it. Along those lines, I ask this...what course have you all played that is overlooked by most raters but you consider a hidden gem.

I say the Country Club of Columbus in Columbus GA. 6,500 yard Ross course rennovated by Drew Rogers of Arthur Hills in 2002. Too short to get a Tour event and, therefore, might be overlooked. But its got the traditional Ross feel with greens that rival Inverness. A true gem!!!

[pasaplayer]

Mrpgolf: Having played a number of both the private and public courses on the list, particularly those on the west coast, I would respond to the question in the penultimate paragraph of your post thusly: Private gem not included on the list: Wade Hampton GC in Cashiers, NC; public gem not included on the list: Pasatiempo GC in Santa Cruz, CA.

[Greg]

When did my local course (the Glen Club) go private?

[Jordan]

According to GolfWeek:

"For a facility to be ranked, it had to receive a minimum number of reader evaluations. (Some notable facilities--Southern Hills CC and The Country Club, for example--don't appear because they did not reach that minimum.)"

You are telling me that Augusta got enough evaluations. Really?

[www.mrpgolf.com]

Pasaplayer...

I am a little jealous. I have yet to play Pasatiempo, but it is on my "bucket list". A Mackenize you can acutally play, baby!!

I would be curious to your thoughts on Wade Hampton. I have yet to play it, and probably will never as I don't know a member, but I hear the course is wonderful, but the membership is a little "stuffy". Thoughts or comments?

Jordan...

I've read through the Golfweek rater handbook a number of times (yeah...I'm that big of a golf geek!!!), and they have requests for raters to play high priority courses and courses on the bottom 50. This is to ensure they get enough opinions on certain courses. That is what they mean by high priority courses...courses that are excellent but run the risk of not getting enough views. Maybe this is the what happened to the courses you named...but I thought I saw them on their list. Sometimes this is the courses fault as some of them don't cater to the rating entities, while others don't get enough interest by the raters.

Hey...its not a perfect science. In fact, I don't think it is a science at all. It is a man made gibberish pile designed to capture human opinions, actions, and thoughts...kind of like economics now that I think of it.

Later!!

[Manny]

Jordan, your quote pertains to the Golf World rankings.

[www.mrpgolf.com]

Manny...

Thanks. I thought I say The Country Club and Southern Hills on the Golfweek latest Golfweek list.

[Fo Shiz]

If I remember attempting to respond to this list, the courses were ranked alphabetically, and the list of courses was preposterously long. I gave up halfway through rating Aronimink, which, I'd surmise, made the top of the list based on its plum position as a quality course that begins with the letter "A", thus garnering it plenty of votes.

[Jordan]

Manny:

Quite right. I still find it hard to believe they could get a big enough sample to include some of the most elite course. But what do I know. I'll never play any of them.

[Mike T.]

I think Court made the point well: It's a list of favorites. When only two of the 14 criteria — course quality and course condition — have even the remotest relevancy to architectural interest, what other results would you expect?

[Jordan]

Incidentally, Augusta received a 9.96 for reputation/prestige. This means at least one person didn't give it a 10. Is there someone on earth that stupid? You get invited to play Augusta, and you say to yourself, "Yeah, that's about a 9 on the reputation/prestige scale."

[www.mrpgolf.com]

I must say that I got my Golfworld in the mail today and I LOVE these lists. Especially the resort list. This is a list compiled by Golfworld by taking input from people who actually played these resort courses in the last twelve months and this is what they thought. Great feedback if you are planning a vacation. Especially the value and service rankings. In times like this, if you spend some money...you want to be treated well.

This is not a best courses in the world list. It is a favorite courses played list. And it is not derived by golf experts, simply golfers. And you will get squirely things...like Jordan said...someone didn't rate Augusta a 10 on reputation and prestige. But hey, that is his/her opinion.

I LOVE this list and I understand what it is.

Later!!!