Ugh: "Most courses do a greens project every 10 years or so."

Even though we had an inkling last fall that this might happen, Ron Kroichick reports the mind-boggling news that TPC Harding Park, just ten years removed from a lifeless PGA Tour Design Services, Inc. $23.6 million greens and design redo, will see its putting surfaces re-grassed this December.

Kroichick elaborates on the reasons, which include a poa annua invasion (who coulda seen that coming?), a looming 2016 PGA Tour playoff event and the annual every-ten-years re-grassing most courses go through.

"We definitely have challenges with the poa - it takes its toll on the greens over time," said Phil Ginsburg, general manager of the Recreation and Park Department. "We're trying to keep this course in top condition for amateurs and pros alike, and most courses do a greens project every 10 years or so."

Ginsburg placed the budget for this renovation at "just under $1 million," which will be paid by Rec & Park.

Comments

[johnnnycz]

"We definitely have challenges with the poa - it takes its toll on the greens over time,"

Uh...no s**t sherlock....Poa is a weed, grows like one, and is native to California. It loves to grow and grow and grow and travel on golfers shoes and stuff...so besides a total quarantine around the course, it's best to cull your losses.

You can either spend lots and lots of money fighting it, or accept it and deal with it w/out having to re-do anything and potentially restrict play and/or raise green fees. That's what a general manager explained to me years ago. Poa is native and rampant in Alberta...in fact the oldest clubs (and best BTW) have almost 100% poa greens. They may be a tad bumpy early in the season (April to late may-ish) but they grow in great come hotter weather and and get real smooth and fast in the summer months.

Lovely putting surfaces when club management just goes with it

[Lynn S.]

Probably the best poa annua greens I have every putted on were at San Francisco Golf Club, which is close by. This was years ago. How do they propose to keep out poa annua until 2016?
I am sure the public golfers are thrilled about this.
I wonder if this is a phony excuse to do some reconturing.

[KS]

About the only thing that will grow in San Francisco is poa annua. If they want to have bentgrass greens, they will need to do this type of renovation periodically. Personally, I would just let poa annua take over and maintain that. There are plenty of golf courses in the world that have a bunch of varieties of turf on their greens in much harsher climates than San Francisco and they do just fine.

I wonder whether the fear of nematodes in the region is governing the thinking (presuming, of course, that the city officials in SF actually do any thinking at all). That is what caused Olympic to re-grass their greens, if I recall correctly.

[Sf]

I'll second the nematode idea. A greenskeeper at one of the SF clubs told me they banned the production of the chemical used to combat the issue. Olympic was using it up until the US Amateur and then they had to redo the greens before the open. Lake Merced has also had significant nematode problems and did a ton of work on their greens a few years back.

I agree that SFGC poa greens are awesome, but it helps that they probably get as many rounds in a month as Harding gets in a day. Trying to successfully kill poa in SF is not a winning strategy.

[Greg C]

This is what happens when you allow the uneducated to make ill-informed decisions.

[Brad]

I've heard that there is some new selective herbicides either available now, or very shortly, that have been proven very successful in controlling poa invasion. That being said, it's hard to imagine in SF's climate that anything would have long term success against poa. It's like poa heaven!

[johnnnycz]

As a general manager of more than one club told me:

"I've helped waste millions of dollars trying to fight Poa....and guess what? It's impossible to fight a weed than WANTS to be there. Best to live with it"

Aside from early season bumpiness (Apr till end of May in sunny Alberta) they grow in when the night temp gets warmer and they putt fast and smooth for the rest of the season.

Now my home club...that's another story. They believe that blindly throwing money at Poa (or any other issue) will actually do something. Having a greens project every 10 yrs has been the norm unfortunately. When I first read the headline, I thought they were talking about Glencoe G&CC. For a few seasons, when the Poa got into the fairways (and worse the rough!!!) they implemented a strict quarantine system for golfers and greens keepers alike. ALot of good money went to bad and they resurfaced them 3 yrs later. I was working on the crew at the time and it was just a pain in the you know what...we were spending more time hosing off machines than cutting. A total waste in the end as the greens are back to a half bent half poa...but it's still golf.

[Brad S]

Greg C

I doubt Tour agronomist are uneducated in the least.

Many cultural strategies are being used to favor bentgrass over poa but when growing conditions favor poa, it's hard to produce a mono-culture. Nematodes are certainly an increasing factor in the deterioration of quality putting surfaces in Northern California but I would certainly trade their numbers of parasitic nematodes for what we deal with in Florida with our sandy soils.

[Kevin part deux]

Brad S - I thought Greg was referring to Phil Ginsburg, the SF Rec and Park dept guy. He's a typical city bureaucrat by training and experience.

[Brad]

johnnycz...they just finished a $7m rennovation of your old track, looks fantastic. Hope you're making Don Price proud as a teacher

[JSS]

Olympic thinks they can keep the poa out, we'll see in 3 years from now.

has anyone considered a grass other than bent? Poa doesn't live in fescue.

[greg c]

Kevin, yes I was referring to Phil Ginsburg.

[Kevin part deux]

JSS, as you know, if ANY club can succeed against poa, it would be Olympic. If they can't do it, then no place can.

[johnnnycz]

Hey Brad...thanks for the update. That's about the 3rd million dollar reno they've done in the last 20yrs. I drew up some of my redesign ideas to one of the poobahs on the greens committee 3 yrs ago after curling...he liked my ideas, but not sure if they implemented them or not since I've been a non-resident member since 2007. I wanted them to run a culvert part-way under the 11th fairway to at least give the guys playing the tips a chance to hit driver instead of laying up short of a cross-creek on a 450yarder...then again at that altitude, it was usually a hard 3w or nuked hybrid to get the ball w/in a 6iron of the green. 12th hole I wanted em to shift the tee to the right 10yds to make it a true dogleg right instead of a 300 blast and a SW to a 442 yarder that it's become....and eliminate half of that FW bunker to allow balls hit hot and left to run into that nasty water/swampish area. And 18 needed some length to it...another 30yds...but that's about i other than re-shaping some of the bunkers and perhaps getting rid of that gawd awful silica sand that refuses to stay on the faces in a dry climate. That sand would be perfect in Vancouver...but it'slike quicksand in a high altitude prairie climate...but the mistake was made 30yrs ago and the members "love" the bright white look...y'know like Augusta??? (groan)

Now Mr Price (I could never call him Don or Donald) brings back many fond and funny memories and reminds of the GIGANTIC shoes I'd have to fill. No one I've ever met had the social tact of that man. He could put an arrogant TypeA CEO in his place and at ease without the person even realizing he lost the argument! He was (is) one of the best Golf Professionals I've ever met (along with John Hughes from NC...my 'playing/swing' Yoda-mentor) and without either of them entering my life I would've never ever fallen in love with the game. I heard now that Don is happily retired in Creston BC, and now gets to play 4times a week vs 2x a month,...he's basically shooting in the high 60's/low70's every time. That man was/is/forever-will-be a STICK!

Thanks for the memories! Now I got to teach fr a few hours.