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« Notably Absent From The Latest Trump Announcement... | Main | R&A Warns Of Open Championship Slow Play Crackdown »
Monday
May062013

Golf Greats Agree: Monty & Couples, Now? Really?

In previewing today's World Golf Hall of Fame ceremony (10 pm ET Golf Channel), Garry Smits talks to some Hall of Famers who aren't afraid to question the inductions of Colin Montgomerie and Fred Couples over others.

Ray Floyd already opened the floodgates, and Tony Jacklin concurred:

“It’s hard to disagree with Raymond,” said Tony Jacklin, a native of England who won two majors and 23 worldwide tournaments. “I vote on the basis of who’s worthy and there’s always majors in it for me.”

“I thought a major should be behind your name to be even considered,” said Sandy Lyle of England, who won two majors and 24 total tournaments. “Quite a lot of players have won majors and not even been considered [for the Hall of Fame].”

The story goes on to quote Bernhard Langer making a case for Mark O'Meara. And Monty, declined the interview requests of Smits.

Through the World Golf Hall of Fame communications department, Montgomerie declined interview requests with the Times-Union.

Meanwhile John Huggan makes a case for the three Scots going into the Hall tonight: Monty, Ken Schofield and Willie Park Jr.

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Reader Comments (38)

Hooray for Huggy for not mentioning Jakarta!! who is inducting Monty??
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterMedia maven
Couples ahead of O'Meara? You gotta be kidding me?! The HOF is a popularity contest. It should be based on merit of career / wins/ majors, not necessarily in that order.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterTheProfromDover
''The HOF is a popularity contest''

Yes.

And i is a reward for ''fame'', and also it is a political ''appointment'' award, as it were.

Pro, It is a WOT to hash out reasons for or against- it is just ,and I hate to say this, what it is, nothing more, nothing less. Some glaring omissions, especially in the design field, and while some feel like they take ''lesser'' inductees, so they can actually have an 'event'' every year, in conjunction with the Player's, The Baseball writers not giving Craig Biggio a first ballot induction as they ''protest'' against ''the steroid era'' of baseball is an insult to one of the greatest players of all time, when all the stats are compiled, so that is the other end of the spectrum.

With the selective enforcement of so many things in golf, with money being the decider, who really can take anything about the HOF seriously?
05.6.2013 | Unregistered Commenterdigsouth
LOL at Biggio being a 1st ballet HoFer, what an embarrassing assessment.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterLeeWatson
Finchem has turned the Hall of Fame into a Champions Tour marketing campaign. What a sham...
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterSean Murphy
Right , Lee Same team career. 3060 hits- see how many players ever hit over 3000- AS as a catcher, and 2nd base, top stats in steals, lead off HR's, doubles, many more offensive stats including runs scored, RBI's as a lead off hitter

Played Catcher 2B, OF, community leader, and always was, not some self named ''foundation'',.

Compare him to all time great 2B's, and there are a lot of HOFers that are behind Biggio in achievement.

It takes 75%, and he had just under 70%, even with the 'roid' standoff.

What is you issue with Biggio not being in the HOF? It seems that your face is glowing red, mine sure isn't.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered Commenterdigsouth
Couples justifies Monty's induction on the basis that if a player was the leading money winner on the American tour seven times in a row and eight in all then that player would be an automatic for the HOF.

Yes,yes, Fred, that is true but are you dumb enough to believe the feats would be close to equivalent?

Hooray for Floyd and Jacklin.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered Commenterfyg
@ dig Agree re: omissions in the design category. Way behind the times there. Guess the "silly season" carries more clout than a lot of us though?! He was a very good player, no questions, Vardon winner, Leading $ winner, Presidents and Ryder Cups......but O'Meara's two majors should be getting more attention!
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterTheProfromDover
Is this right?

If you get, say, 51% of the vote yet someone else gets 65%, you don't get in.

If you get 51% and no one gets 65%, you're in?

In the end, it's a business that needs an annual shin-dig to drum up interest. They'd look silly throwing a party with no guest(s) of honor.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterWillie
Pro- Yes Mark should be in, no doubt.

I have no problem with Monty, Couples or Kenny.

I am really no fan of Venturi; I thought his ''marathon'' was really dumb, if he ws actually that dehydrated- having had the dizzy/flushed stage of a heat stroke, it was about as scary a health moment as I can recall- I just can't imagine someone being able to walk, much less swing a golf club- but as a broadcaster, he is deserving to be in this golf exhibition.

And Monty is well served to get in; his amazing Ryder Cup record alone merits strong consideration, and his record Order of Merit, well, to say that it ''wasn't the PGA'' SO WHAT ? Winning is not easy. Period. Monty won a lot.

Couples- I can see him in, but I really think it should have been some time from now.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered Commenterdigsouth
Floyd and Jacklin are not in my Real Golf Hall of Fame.

However, there is an open invitation to them joining the Board of Directors of the Real Golf Hall of Fame for their fearless comments.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterAbu Dhabi Golfer
Bush made it.
Why can't they?
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterStanley Thompson
Abu:

I was waiting for your post! Guess 22 wins, 4 majors and 10 more senior tour wins for Floyd don't cut it. Ah well, as I stated before, I had far more issues about your failure to include Billy Casper.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterSari
WGHOF WHO CARES.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterFT
If Couples is HOF material so is DL3.
If DL3 is HOF worthy so is Justin Leonard.
Mark Brooks?
Bob Tway?
Notah Begay? He likes Tiger!
Greg Norman's wife? She had to put up with him.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterHighside
FT,

I certainly care about the WGHOF since it is indirectly responsible for my salary!
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterBrad S
Is this guy a golf journalist?
Sandy Lyle of England??
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterStiggy
Lee Janzen? Andy North? Two US Opens apiece.

When is John Daly's name due for consideration?

Or is Hall of FAME comprised of other things?
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterClaude
It should not be annual.
Forced to have inductees every year, HoFs happen to be less than exceptional, as they should supposed to be.
Great players, but not always exceptional.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterFiber
@ fiber Great line, "Great players, but not always exceptional" Tip of the cap to you for that one. I think we (media too) way over use the term "great' when describing golfers' abilities. @ Sari, agree, Casper make any HOF for golfers! Perhaps the most under rated GREAT player.
Not sure I buy the argument that Mark-O should be in ahead of Couples. Yes, he has one more win and one more major, but his overall record in majors is considerably less impressive (5 top-3's and 11 top 10's vs. 8 top-3's and 26 top 10's). He did win an Am, but Fred has 2 Players, a Senior British Open, 2 Vardon trophies and was the only American ranked number 1 in the world for more than one week (hello, Tom Lehman!) in the 11 years of the OWGR before Tiger came along. At no point in Mark O'Meara's career was he considered even close to Fred's world-class level until he surprisingly found major glory at age 41. Basically, the argument that Mark should go in ahead of Fred is the argument that 40 minutes of playoff golf against zero-event-winner Brian Watts trumps 15 years of far superior play on a world-wide stage.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterRES
If you have to think about it, then they shouldn't get in . . .
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterSmitty
THE REAL GOLF HALL OF FAME

Allan Robertson
Old Tom Morris
Young Tom Morris
JH Taylor
Harry Vardon
James Braid
Walter Hagen
Bobby Jones
Gene Sarazen
Byron Nelson
Ben Hogan
Sam Snead
Bobby Locke
Peter Thompson
Arnold Palmer
Gary Player
Jack Nicklaus
Lee Trevino
Seve Ballasteros
Tom Watson
Nick Faldo
Phil Mickelson - Active
Ernie Els - Active
Tiger Woods - Active
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterAbu Dhabi Golfer
CURRENT MOUNT RUSHMORE OF GOLF:

Tiger Woods
Jack Nicklaus
Bobby Jones
Old Tom Morris
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterAbu Dhabi Golfer
AND, CURRENT GREATEST OF ALL TIME:

Jack Nicklaus
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterAbu Dhabi Golfer
JUST ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN

Greg Norman
Nick Price
Billy Casper
Tommy Armour
Jimmy Demaret
Willie Park Sr.
Ray Floyd

The boat has to leave some behind to keep room available for the future greats we will never know.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterAbu Dhabi Golfer
These new members all deserve to be in this HOF, and to diss them in this hour of praise is very tacky. There is/was a time and place, but this is not it.

Congratulations to all these fine gentlemen, and a pat on the back of Jim Nance- this will be a tough night for him- Venturi is very ill.
05.6.2013 | Unregistered Commenterdigsouth
Stiggy beat me to it. Sandy Lyle's easy-going demeanour is in danger of expolsion.

'struth!
05.6.2013 | Unregistered CommenterGhillie
I see the "real hall of fame" STILL can't spell Seve's last name properly... Not much to argue against about the list otherwise, I'd buy that primarily US-based players like Casper and Floyd would need more extensive major and PGA Tour credentials than a truly global player like Els.
05.7.2013 | Unregistered CommenterHawkeye
If you have to spend an entire broadcast justifying why a person or persons should be in the Hall of Fame, they probably don't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.
05.7.2013 | Unregistered CommenterMike Stevens
Fiber hits it on the head - when you force annual selections to support a made for TV event then you cheapen the qualifications

The other issue is players should not be eligible until 50 years old. This will eliminate currently active players like Singh, Els and Mickelson taking votes away from other deserving players.

The fact that the HOF already had to update Els' display to add the 2012 Open Championship win is appalling! How many HOF members in Cooperstown or Canton have had their stats updated after induction - enough said!
05.7.2013 | Unregistered Commenterbayhill bogey
Abu: you missed a few:

Charles Blair MacDonald

HJ Whigham

Donald Ross

Harry Colt

AW Tillinghast

How Whigham, Colt and Tillie aren't in there is beyond me.
05.7.2013 | Unregistered CommenterShivas
C.B. Macdonald is already in the HOF. , Add Dick Wilson and either put an asterisk next to CBM, or put Seth Raynor in as well. How about Tom Bendelow, the "Johnny Appleseed" of American golf course architecture?
05.7.2013 | Unregistered CommenterTheProfromDover
... And to be named HoFamer, one should be over with his career (not still playing, broadcasting, etc.), in order to have a more objective result, less influenced (for the good or the bad) by his last results/performance.
05.7.2013 | Unregistered CommenterFiber
@bayhill bogey: I don't necessarily disagree with you, but this is nothing new - Nicklaus won six majors after his induction!
05.7.2013 | Unregistered CommenterHawkeye
And how about Stanley Thompson, one of the best Golf Architects ever.
05.7.2013 | Unregistered CommenterStanley Thompson
I would vote for you Stanley! You are one of the best! @ bayhlll over 50 would be appropriate.
@ The Pro from Dover

For your information Stanley was a world leading architect who designed exceptional courses and who trained many future architects among whom was Robert Trent Jones.
05.8.2013 | Unregistered CommenterStanley Thompson

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