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Wednesday
Sep282016

Manspat Alert: Brandel Chamblee & David Duval Go Extra Holes Over Leadership

A lively, 24-hole Live From match broke out between Brandel Chamblee and David Duval over leadership.

The debate got a bit touchy at this point:

Duval: "Well having actually been out there and done it, there's more to it than just what the stats say."

Chamblee: "You think that actually having to be out there to do it, determines whether or not you can pass judgement on it or not? I wasn't at the Boston Tea Party but I can tell you all about it."

Duval: "OK, well I know you're never wrong. I understand that."

The clear plastic sheeting adds a nice Dexteresque feel to the scene...

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Reader Comments (38)

I didn't see their debate but I don't like reading that Duval, whom I like, went with a cheap insult rather than dealing with Chamblee's statement.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterSchlasser
If you're talking about leadership, yeah, experience does matter. Sorry Brandel.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterPJ
It was so uncomfortable that I had to change the channel.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterPlay It Forward
Frank had to feel like Mills Lane ...
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterBSP
Brandel was cruising for a brusin as he kept trying to get on top with stats and what not, while DD has experience in Pres Cup and Ryder Cup, etc.

As a fan of golf, I gave the manspat to DD on points. (or his team experience)
"Having been there" is a lazy and cheap argument that athletes pull out when they're getting smoked in a debate. Have seen it time and again.

(Hey, glad to see comments are back on Shack!)
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterJohn
in this case, BC is using won/loss record as an evaluation of leadership.

Tiger used a version of intimidation with body language, clothing and his style of play as one of his tools during his incredible run. Could you imagine the pressure you would feel as his partner? His singles record speaks for itself.

With Phil, could you imagine playing from where he typically drives the ball? Very few have ever played that could shoot any kind of respectable score from some of the spots he hits his tee shots. Talk about taking you out of your typical rhythm on the course.

Azinger's use of like personality types to assemble teams was genius and shows the power of creating comfort and reducing tension in these matches.

One other note, Nobilo's reference to momentum, later used by Duval also holds very true. Momentum is the most powerful feeling in sport and empowers the athlete to reach a level of performance which they usually cannot maintain. Seve established a sense of team which cleared the pathway for the Euro's to grasp the hand of momentum; a "feeling" that resonated for so many years. It will be interesting to watch this year's Euro team as many of it's players did not have the benefit of being part of Seve's bandwagon.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered Commenterpblackmar
Phil is "going off" again in the press tent.......making excuses for his own bad play because of failed leadership...........

Phil thinks he is the smartest guy on the course; when in fact he is the smartest guy at finding excuses for his own failures.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterBoboftheSuburbs
Nobilo looked like he wanted to crawl under the table.

There were no saints in the battle...Duval may have played the experience card but Chamblee rudely and intentionally interrupted every Duval sentence just as it began ie he had no idea what Duval might say but was merely attempting to drown him out.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterPatchy
From something I read in SI(?) in the late 1960s when I was about 14 years old, so consider the source: Dr. Frank Ryan of the Cleveland Browns, where he led them to an NFL Championship in 1964, and Rice University wrote his dissertation on momentum in athletics (not the physical kind). IIRC he was a early user of a large computerized database (his software, naturally, at that time). His conclusion was that it made little difference in outcomes. But YMMV, and he could have only looked at team sports. If you believe you will make the putt, you might. If you don't believe it, probably not...But really, that "I've been there and you haven't" is indeed lazy. You don't have to die to write an obituary.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterKLG
This is the essence of why the Live From show suffers. They finally have some good debate but it comes off as nasty because none of the people involved have a sense of humor. On the TNT NBA show, Barkley and Shaq inject some laughs and jokes to take the edge off, without sacrificing substance.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterDavidC
Good tv; this kind of point-counter point turns mundane golf tourney coverage into something worth watching (following).
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterBoboftheSuburbs
in pure rhetorical fallacy terms, i've-been-and-you-haven't is indeed lazy and non-probative, but these guys are not debating at the Oxford Union.

the whole reason TGC has Duval on in the first place is that he HAS been there and can offer a perspective and analysis that the other guys - even pros like Chamblee and Nobilo - cannot. Duval's perspective is valuable irrespective of whether Chamblee agrees or if it ultimately turns out to be right. all the rest is Chamblee showing his own insecurity (i say that as someone who enjoys Brandel's work, especially his willingness to take a contrry position). there is plenty of room on that stage for both positions.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered Commenterthusgone
I thought it was awesome. You have to have people who have different points of view. You shouldn't make it personal.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterPops pacific
Although uncomfortable at times this was great television and something Live From and GC in general lack. Rarely a differing opinion on the panel. Nobilo is made of wood except his brain -- that's pure syrup. Rosaforte's a jock-sniffer. Let Duval and Chamblee disagree -it's okay.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterDrew Scott
Geoff, the Dexter reference was great; made this Duval-Chamblee kitten fight even funnier.

+1 pblackmar

RE: Phil Mickelson. My father-in-law SWEARS (based on multiple "buddies" who "know a guy...") that Phil is every bit as great as he seems on TV and wouldn't dream of undermining other team captains, but I can't shake the suspicion that Phil's public image (including his personal life) is at least partly manufactured theater, calculated to drive up his endorsement value (another aspect of Arnie's life that Phil works hard to emulate). Now, turning your entire life, including your family, into public theater requires a rare sort of person who is a little narcissistic, very controlling and calculating, and highly intelligent - but who believes he is even smarter than he really is - someone who thinks he can fool all of the people, all of the time. How does any of that NOT sound like Phil Mickelson?

Some have written (including in comments here) that Phil is the common thread in our Ryder Cup failures. While it's impossible to say if he's played a role in our losses, Phil is certainly the only recent team member I can think of to criticize a teammate (a Captain at that, and during the competition!). Based on all of the above you have to wonder what else he's done behind the scenes in previous Ryder Cups, and what negative effect it may have had on team performance.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterPersimmonious
Watched this live last night. Great theater. I know Chamblee rubs people the wrong way, but he's not afraid to call out poor play. Whereas Duval simply wanted to protect the shield. Woods, Lefty, and Furyk have been involved in the U.S. Ryder Cup woes for almost 20 years. You can't rely on the "bad breaks" excuse that Duval was claiming for that big of a sample size.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterBoros
Chamblee is the King of Taking Himself Seriously. The next joke he makes, or laughs at, will be the first.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterJay Jones
I thought Nobilo's point about the President's Cup was excellent, and to me weighed the scales against Brandel. If Phil and Tiger act similarly (in terms of their "leadership") at the PC, and they win, are the losses then due to a failure of their "leadership"? Maybe you have to give the Euro's some credit for creating a formula to win, not the other way around.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterBrianS
Nice to have comments back, Geoff.

I watched it live and it was uncomfortable, reminding me of the days of Peter Kessler on live TV going off on Rosaforte about posting handicap scores or going after Arnold for using a non-conforming driver. Such are the risks of live TV, along with the rewards as was seen on GCs live marathon on Sunday night after AP passed away, which was simply outstanding.

In this case I found Brandel's arrogance a bit much to take. Maybe I am based because I really like Duval and wish he would have a larger role on GC, and I suspect that may be threatened because of Chamblee's behavior.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterGreg B.
More of this & less of the Roberts-esque sap drivel. Brandel isn't afraid to back down to Duval. Something needs to be said or called out with the USA's poor performance. At least he's addressing it with something that's quasi-objective. Not just "S*** happens."
Stats are ok if you like to reflect after the fact. They have virtually no role in preparation. But that's all BS has, stats, and they are all about the past. This is about the build up to the next Ryder Cup and, like the game of golf a lot of it is "feel".1 point for the match to Duval.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterRuss Moores
@ BoboftheSuburbs:

I've never head another pro say "I'm such an idiot" after loosing a major. That's not making excuses. Just say "I don't like Phil" instead of making stuff up that you think makes you sound smart, but in fact shows that you don't have a clue about which you speak.

@ Persimmonious:

Phil has earned his position as an elder statesman of the Ryder Cup, by putting himself on the team with repeated and consistent play - year in and year out - frankly pretty remarkable in it's own right.

He's a Hall of Fame player - still actively playing and competing.

Tom Watson did a horrible job - possibly the 'polite' thing to do might have been to shut up, but Phil earned his right to speak up by virtue of his experience. He wasn't some rookie, speaking out of turn.

Most of your criticisms can probably be summed up by saying it's pretty clear he actually cares about the Ryder Cup more than a number of his American contemporaries.

As far as your theory that his 'whole life' is an act of theater - just give up. You are another guy who'd earn more respect if you just said "I don't like Phil." Quit trying to justify your dislike with manufactured scenarios that don't exist in reality. The Kardashians are people who put their whole lives out for public consumption - the Mickelsons are NOT.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterPress Agent
I think part of the point is that the captain mostly makes the pairings and picks who is sitting. In Medina, playing Tiger period is a loss vs a win for the whole cup. The thinking must have been he has one of the worst point conversion records of the team, we should play him more. While some small percentage of overall record losses can be attributed to "fluke" events, why would anyone expect a different outcome by playing him more.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterI'mw/readerJim
Ok, I need some clarification here, I've read that BC hates Tuger, now he is being accused that he hates Phil,
I know he has some opinions that people don't like, but
It can't always be that he doesn't like someone.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterPops pacific
Changing your equipment (04) the week before the Ryder Cup sends a message to your team mates. I wouldn't want to be teamed up with that.
I was simply channel surfing... tuned in right at the beginning of the feud. Couldn't turn the channel. LOL... loved it when Duval told him he's never wrong! LOL... Frank and Rich were both visibly uncomfortable with the back-and-forth... Nobilo isn't unfamiliar with Chamblee's inability to avoid on-air confrontation, he's been on the other side of that situation too.

It is painfully apparent that Brandel has a huge chip on his shoulder. The fact is - if he'd concentrate more on not criticizing players and making incendiary remarks, no one would feel compelled to remind him that his career on tour doesn't match up with those he continusouly bashes. But if you're gonna step in the ring and punch a guy below the belt - you shouldn't be surprised if a few low blows come your way in the exchange.

Duval is a huge compliment to the Golf Channel, and I've very much enjoyed his contributions. I used to think the same thing about Brandel, but that was back before he became obsessed with nitpicking Tiger Woods to death. Now that Tiger's not playing - he's gotta find another punching bag. The difference however is that Phil won't ignore it like Tiger did all those years.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterPA PLAYA
Pa Playa:

Could not agree with you more, on all points, but especially that Duval is a very welcome addition to TGC. Thoughtful, eloquent and informative.
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterSari
It was very entertaining to watch. Poor Nobilo! Had to sit there between them while BC and DD went at it! Duval was apoplectic at one point and I thought he was going to get up and punch BC out! I bet the production manager was screaming into their earpieces to put a lid on it when it go to that point! LOL

Not a BC fan, but it was surely entertaining! lol
09.28.2016 | Unregistered CommenterRVMcC
Brandel may know the swing, but David Duval was able to use his to get to the top. Chamblee played in 14 majors – best finish T18 at the 1999 Masters, his only appearance – and one once on the PGA Tour, the 1998 Greater Vancouver Open.

He's a chatty journeyman and statistics wonk with a gift for gab. I like him, but as Duval alluded, he's not right all the time.

Excellent television, up there with Nobilo vs. Chamblee last year.
09.29.2016 | Unregistered CommenterGolden Bell
It was a couple of years ago when the GC had Faldo and Miller joined by Chamblee talking about the state of the game. The look on their faces when Brandel gave his opinion was priceless.
In 18 hole match's, remember that Davids have a much better chance against Goliath's. The Goliath's are are like marathoners, conditioned for 72 hole tournaments.
Heck, every town has a hot scrappy player that can play 18 holes on his best day with a Tour player, not 72 holes!
09.29.2016 | Unregistered CommenterA
How do you shut Brandel up? Why does he feel the need to impress with all his cerebral,nonstop gibberish?
09.29.2016 | Unregistered CommenterKathy K
CHAMBLEE IS AND HAS BEEN A PONTIFICATING ASS EVER SINCE HIS ARRIVAL ON GOLF CHANNEL. HIS WEAK AND SPECIOUS ARGUMENT THAT HE COULD TELL YOU ALL ABOUT THE BOSTON TEA PARTY FAILS TO ADDRESS WHAT DUVAL WAS SAYING... READING ABOUT AN EVENT DOES NOT ENABLE YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE TENOR OF THE ACTUAL MOMENTS OF THE COMPETITION. REGARDING THE HIS COMMENTS ON IAN POULTER ...YES HE WAS A BETTER
PLAYER THAN TIGER OR PHIL DURING THE RYDER CUP, HENCE HIS RECORD.

I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT HE EXCORIATES PHIL FOR HIS COMMENTS ON HAL SUTTON YET BLAMES TIGER AND PHIL FOR THE LOSSES.
09.29.2016 | Unregistered CommenterJim d
CHAMBLEE IS AND HAS BEEN A PONTIFICATING ASS EVER SINCE HIS ARRIVAL ON GOLF CHANNEL. HIS WEAK AND SPECIOUS ARGUMENT THAT HE COULD TELL YOU ALL ABOUT THE BOSTON TEA PARTY FAILS TO ADDRESS WHAT DUVAL WAS SAYING... READING ABOUT AN EVENT DOES NOT ENABLE YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE TENOR OF THE ACTUAL MOMENTS OF THE COMPETITION. REGARDING THE HIS COMMENTS ON IAN POULTER ...YES HE WAS A BETTER
PLAYER THAN TIGER OR PHIL DURING THE RYDER CUP, HENCE HIS RECORD.

I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT HE EXCORIATES PHIL FOR HIS COMMENTS ON HAL SUTTON YET BLAMES TIGER AND PHIL FOR THE LOSSES.
09.29.2016 | Unregistered CommenterJim d
I watched the whole thing twice. ..when it came to the Walker-Zac
pairing, Brandel went on and on about how he never would have sent them out, their stats were so bad, on and on...he forgot, and so did the others, that they both are major champions, made the team on points...
And a PGA Champion! And a 2015 OPEN Champion! Nobody gave them those victories, they WON. He didnt bother with the fact they are both top notch putters. I predict a win for the third match, due to the grit factor.
Love the comments being back...
Route 66
09.29.2016 | Unregistered CommenterRoute66
I used to enjoy listening to B.C. because he is so articulate. Now, though, I believe that he talks better than he thinks, and he's more interested in winning an argument than in getting at the truth. When David Duval speaks, I'd listen.
10.1.2016 | Unregistered Commenter3foot1
I listen when DD speaks because he's been at the top and the bottom and offers a unique perspective to the game that few others can provide. I don't put a lot of stock in BC's comments because he has a weak track record. But, you'd think he's won multiple majors based on his arrogance. Faldo can pull it off because he's one of the greatest, BC is just polarizing and self absorbed.

Time to put BC out to pasture.
10.6.2016 | Unregistered CommenterJJ
I listen when DD speaks because he's been at the top and the bottom and offers a unique perspective to the game that few others can provide. I don't put a lot of stock in BC's comments because he has a weak track record. But, you'd think he's won multiple majors based on his arrogance. Faldo can pull it off because he's one of the greatest, BC is just polarizing and self absorbed.

Time to put BC out to pasture.
10.6.2016 | Unregistered CommenterJJ

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